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Information Echo » Flying Clubs.

Mar 23 2006

Flying Clubs.

Published by Mark at 7:34 pm under Flying, Money

Aviadisto posted a few days back about a great low-cost flying club that he had came across, with rates as low as $47/Hr for 150’s - and that’s wet rates!

This figure sure made me realize exactly what a well organized club can do to lower the cost of flying.

Really - Even after the USD to CDN exchange rate, that’s just a little under $55/Hour, which is exactly half of what I’m paying right now for every hour in a 152. $55 per hour is sure alot more palatable!

Unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge there are no immediately local flying clubs in my area. There used to be an Oshawa Flying Club that was quite a large organization out of my home airport (My father belonged to it for many years) but it went bankrupt quite a few years back, leaving the airport with only it’s flight training facilities to provide rentals.

Yes, the fleet between Canadian Flight Academy (Where I trained) and Durham Flight Center (the other training facility at CYOO) is decent enough, but the costs are still high compared to what I’m sure a club could offer.

And it’s understandable to some extent - these commercial operations like CFA and DFC are held to commercial standards, and as such the maintenance is alot more thorough. Additionally, they have overhead.

I’m not spitefull about paying for all of that, but I would also not be upset about paying less for alternatives.

I called DFC a few days ago to inquire about their fleet, rates, and checkout. The first problem was that all of their two seaters are 150’s (instead of 152’s), which have a maximum gross weight of 1600 Lbs, as opposed to the 1670 pounds of the 152’s.

For me, that’s a major restriction right there - with myself and another sizable guy in the cockpit, we need that 70 pounds in order to make a 2 seater realistic while staying within W&B.

So, scratch one.

Their fleet of 172’s is decent, and the rates are good, but not different enough that I’m going to rush over there to checkout, and then have to deal with the hassles of trying to maintain currency at two different FBO’s.

So, it’s time for me to checkout on either CFA’s 172’s, or the Cherokee. I’m torn on what to do in that regard - the Cherokee is nice, but there’s also only one, and it’s obviously very popular. Additionally, the low wing design isn’t great for the typical gawking sightseers that I take flying with me.

The 172’s are nicely equipped, more modern, and spacious, but not quite as much fun to fly as the Cherokee I’m sure. But, for my needs, they are the best fit next to the 52’s.

So, back to Flying Clubs…

Aviadisto suggests we look at just starting one up at CYOO if none exist. A nice idea, and it could quite possibly fly, but I’d have to investigate it some more to begin with, and then find someone much more knowledgable then myself to investigate any potential purchases. The last thing we need is to buy a troublesome aircraft, or to put a club together with certain financial obligations, only to have a bunch of people drop out, leaving the rest of us to carry the baggage.

Then again, that’s all assuming that this even happens.

I know it’s been tried before, and failed miserably….so I’m a lttle scared to even start thinking about it.

But, I must admit to the thought lurking in the back of my head…..and I’m sure that there’s lots of renters at Oshawa Airport who would jump at the opportunity.

Hmm….

8 Responses to “Flying Clubs.”

  1. Paul Tomblinon 23 Mar 2006 at 9:29 pm

    AOPA has some good information about starting flying clubs. Maybe COPA has similar? There are a bunch of different ways to do a flying club, and it’s hard to draw a firm line to say when you’ve got a large partnership and when you’ve got a flying club.

    I’ve often thought about just buying a plane with 3 or 4 other people. The aircraft availability and the pride of ownership are big draws, but the downside is that with only one plane, if it’s grounded for maintenance, so are you. In the flying club, I can’t always get a plane when I want it, but at least when the Lance is grounded I can take the Dakota instead.

  2. aviadistoon 28 Mar 2006 at 12:25 pm

    I would say the difference between a large partnership and a club is that the club is (or should be) its own legal entity.

  3. John Spraggeon 28 Mar 2006 at 5:31 pm

    For serious flying, and here I speak of flights such as Detroit to New York, Boston or Texas, or Kenora via Sioux Lookout and the Soo to London (Ontario), I want more maintenance than I believe a $47/wet rate would provide. American aviators may pay less for gas, but (adequate) liability coverage will cost you a lot more than it does in Canada. A $47 wet rate may look good, but I would really want to know what the club skimped on before flying their planes. (Disclaimer: I have a plane on leaseback to an FBO in the United States, so I know where the money goes.)

  4. Markon 28 Mar 2006 at 10:12 pm

    I don’t know, it all does sound too good to be true.

    I’ve been thinking more about this recently. For my needs, all I need is a well equipped 152.

    There’s plenty of others in my same situation at Oshawa - just casual pilots who want a 2 seater to buzz around Southern Ontario.

    I think that there could be a reasonable business decision to take a 1/3 share in a 152 as a bit of a mini-club. The “club” designation keeps it a business, and makes legal matters a little easier to deal with.

    With the right mix of pilots (A mix of weekday and weekend pilots to make scheduling easier) and an agreement on availbility, I think it could work.

    Might look into it more seriously a while down the road.

    Done right, with an adequate financial layout on behalf of everyone and good reserves and financial management to ensure the plane is servicable and well maintained, it could work out well to keep costs low versus renting from the flight school.

  5. Dr. Kerstin Kellyon 08 May 2008 at 11:55 pm

    PUBLIC MEETING
    LINDSAY AIRPORT REVIEW COMMITTEE
    WEDNESDAY MAY 14, 2008 7 PM
    LIONS HALL, COBOCONK (Hwy 35 & 48 – 40 km N Lindsay)
    THIS THE SECOND AND FINAL MEETING FOR PUBLIC INPUT REGARDING THE LINDSAY AIRPORT (CNF4)
    THIS REVIEW PROCESS HAS BEEN REQUESTED BY COUNCIL IN ORDER TO CONSIDER THE VIABILITY OF THE MUNICIPALY OWNED LINDSAY AIRPORT.
    SHOULD IT BE CLOSED AND THE LAND SOLD FOR DEVELOPMENT OR REMAIN OPEN.
    ALL PERSONS AND/OR BUSINESSES THAT HAVE IN INTEREST IN THE AIRPORT SHOULD ATTEND.
    THIS COMMITTEE WILL MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE MUNICIPAL COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF KAWARTHA LAKES BASED IN PART BY THE INPUT FROM THIS PUBLIC MEETING.
    THIS IS THE LAST OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE COMMENTS OR SUBMIT ANY DOCUMENTS THAT FAVOUR THE CONTINUING USE AND DEVELOPMENT OF THE LINDSAY AIRPORT.
    WE NEED ALL PILOTS, FRIENDS, AND RELATED BUSINESSES TO ATTEND THIS MEETING TO SHOW SUPPORT FOR THE LINDSAY AIRPORT ON MAY 14, 2008!
    FOR MORE INFORMATION OR IF YOU WISH TO MAKE A DEPUTATION
    PLEASE CALL KAWARTHA FLYING CLUB - Bruno Luzak 705-879-0465
    For any pilots from outside area wishing to fly in - we can arrange to
    shuttle them to Coboconk from the airport -but must call me 705-879-0465 to
    make arrangements.

    The meeting will be held at the Lions Hall in Coboconk - which you can’t
    miss -right on the main street -look for all the cars. Starts @ 7 PM on
    Wednesday May 14. 2008.

    SEE YOU AT THE MEETING.

  6. Ajayon 26 Jan 2010 at 9:17 am

    Hi Guys,

    I am fascinated with part owning a new Piper Sport with 3 to 4 other like minded folks ….

    I am training at Oshawa and live in Durham region …

    http://www.newpiper.com/home/pages/PiperSport.cfm

    Surely this thing sounds like lot of fun …. I will be open to sharing this both on weekends and weekdays.

    I am sure there are like minded people who are sick of flying old glider junk …..

    Ajay.

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  8. Annice Kingcadeon 12 May 2012 at 5:39 am

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